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titan4 |
Chocolate Malt Cheesecake - What went wrong? |
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I precisely followed the directions for the Chocolate Malt Cheesecake on page 416, but it came out of the pressure cooker looking soupy and uncooked. It still
looked the same as it did when I poured it in the springform pan except there was a lot of air bubbles from cooking. I don't know if it makes any
difference, but the only thing I could find for the chocolate malt powder was Carnation Malted Milk which is a chocolate powder. I put it back in the pressure
cooker and cooked it under pressure for an additional 15 minutes. It was still a little soupy, but chilled it in refrigerator overnight. It tasted so-so the
next day. I had made two batches of batter to make two cheesecakes, but after the first disaster I put the second batch in the refrigerator for the night. The
next morning I poured the cold batter into the second springform pan and cooked it at pressure for 40 minutes (double the prescribed cooking time which is huge
in pressure cooker terms). It came out thicker, but still a little soupy. Both batters were made correctly. The only unknown is the malt powder.
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emazingrace |
#1 | |||
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Hello titan4. I'm sorry this has not been successful for you. I've not made this particular recipe, but I have made Vickie's Lemon Cheesecake
numerous times, and it's always come out perfect. And, in fact, the lemon cheesecake has a higher liquid to dry ratio. I wouldn't think the
substituted powered milk would cause the problem in the consistency, although the flavor might be different.
I'm going to ask a couple of questions, more of a check list for you to review in your mind everything you did. 1. did you use a rack to keep the springform above the water? 2. did you cover the springform tightly with foil? I typically use either string or rubber bands
Your Signature ... "The pressure's on...let's cook something!"
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titan4 |
#2 | |||
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Yes to all questions. I used the trivet plate that came with the Kuhn Rikon PC as well as the wire rack that comes with the Fagor Silicone dessert kit. I used
foil to seal the springform pan. I did everything right.
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emazingrace |
#3 | |||
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I'm going to turn this over to Vickie. Hopefully she will be able to help find the solution.
Your Signature ... "The pressure's on...let's cook something!"
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Miss Vickie Pressure Cooker Recipes |
#4 | |||
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Let's see what I can add... keep in mind that all cheesecakes will be a little wet and wobbly looking -- especially in the center -- even though they are fully cooked, but once chilled, it will firm up and get the correct consistency and the texture becomes nice and firm. My simple recipe for cheesecake uses just cream cheese and eggs as the main ingredients, there is no added milk or cream, so the filling should not be soupy looking at any time. The cream cheese itself should be the regular type, no low fat or substitues. Titan4, you mention using two batches of this recipe; is that actually two separate batches that you made, or did you double up? Larger cheese cakes will need more eggs to act as the binding agent, so if the small recipe was doubled without adding additional eggs, the filling would not thicken up as it should. Also with eggs, you'll want to be sure to use large, not medium sized, and be sure that they are fresh so they will work to bind everything together. Older eggs, while edible, gradually lose that ability. You can see this when the whites look runny and thin rather than firm. Also, I would not recommend chilling, or holding uncooked cheesecake filling because it contains raw eggs. If you don't plan on cooking right away, then wait until you're ready. If you need to store a cheese cake then it can be frozen after its fully cooked and chilled -- either whole or sliced will work. Another thing that comes to mind is the temperature of that chilled filling. Although I have never used a cold filling myself, the pressure cooker cooks from the outside toward the middle, so I can tell you that you're going to have a problem with getting the heat in the pressure cooker to penetrate all the way through to the center of anything that cold and dense. OK, now lets talk more about heat. Cheesecake filling is very dense, so the heat and timing must be sufficient to cook it. In the KR, you'll want to be sure that the second red ring on pop-up pressure indicator rod is showing above the top of the dome housing before you begin timing. Use the natural release, allowing the cheesecake to finish cooking as the heat and pressure slowly subside... no cheating to speed up this final (but crucial) phase. While on the subject of heat: Use a metal pan because in conducts heat better than glass or ceramics, and that heat transfers to the filling and helps cook the cake. Another thing to look at is the depth or thickness of the cake itself. With most pans that fit inside the pressure cooker, we're talking about a 7 to 8 inch diameter, with a filling that is about 2 1/2 inches thick, and this will cook nicely in the time given. If you are increasing the width or depth, then you will also need to increase the cooking time, and that will require some trial and error on your part to determine what works for the pan you have. One more observation: I used the trivet plate that came with the Kuhn Rikon PC as well as the wire rack that comes with the Fagor Silicone dessert kit. If you did this, stacking the cheese cake pan on a wire rack that was on top of another cooking rack, the elevated cake was placed farther away from the source of the heat. I would choose one or the other, but there is no reason to use both. Let us know if this is helpful.
Last Edited By: Miss Vickie Pressure Cooker Recipes 07/06/09 09:23:41.
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titan4 |
#5 | |||
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Thank you emazingrace and Miss Vickie. I am finally back to a real computer and keyboard having typed all of the previous posts in this thread on my cell
phone. I was away for the weekend and made the cheesecakes while visiting friends out of state.
The cheesecake was not to the point of being wobbly after 20 minutes. It was still in its "pouring" state just as it was when I poured it into the springform pan with the only difference being lots of air bubbles due to the heat. I have cooked several cheesecakes before with no problems, but they were from different pressure cooker cookbooks (interestingly I have close to 30 pressure cooker cookbooks!). The cream cheese was the regular type. It was not low fat. The only thing different from my other cheesecakes in the past was the brand. I always used Philadelphia brand before, but in North Georgia (Blue Ridge) the grocery store did not have that brand. I used a brand called Laura Lynn. I was careful to measure out the 11 ounces going by the markings on the package. All of the ingredients were very fresh since they were all bought on the same day that made the cheesecakes. The eggs were large and they had no appearance of being old. The two batches were made independently - one after the other. The only reason that I decided to chill the 2nd batch was due to the problems I had with the first cheesecake. It was already approaching midnight and I was just too tired to battle a 2nd one. I was not totally comfortable cooking with it while it was cold from refrigeration, but at that point figured I had nothing to lose. I knew a cold mix would affect cooking time, so that - along with knowing what happened on the first cheesecake - is what motivated me to double the cooking time to 40 minutes for the 2nd cheesecake. I was in uncharted waters, but did not know what else to do at the time. As far as the correct heat and timing goes I am very meticulous about that. I have the timer ready to go and when the 2nd row of red dashed lines appear on my KR Top Model PC I start the timer. I never leave the kitchen while it cooks. I watch the red dashed lines like a hawk being careful not to let it deviate. I use the Natural Release method as intended. When the timer beeps I simply move it to an unused section of the stove top and let it drop on its own. I do not vent it manually or anything like that. I do use a metal pan. I use 7 inch springform pans that are made of aluminum. I had to get them from Amazon, since they were not available in that size in local stores. The trivet plate that came with my KR is at the most 1/4 inch in height. The Fagor wire rack has feet on it that are about 1 inch in height. So using the two together means that the springform pan sits roughly 1.25 inches above the bottom of the PC. With 2 cups of water in the PC the water line is roughly 1/8 of an inch above the KR trivet plate. That would put the bottom of the springform pan roughly 7/8 of an inch above the waterline if I used it alone and not with the wire rack. I like the Fagor wire rack, because it has foldable handles that give you something to lift with and thereby negating the need for the foil helper handles. So if I avoided the wire rack that would mean that the springform pan would barely be sitting in water if I used only the trivet plate. As I type this my brain just did a recall that may be telling. I have had a couple of occasions where a couple of cheesecakes seemed undercooked. These were Fudgy Peanut Butter cheesecakes from a different book. Maybe the tall feet on the wire rack is the culprit. On the other hand the Peach Amaretto cheesecake recipe in the KR book that came with the PC comes out beautifully every time. The wire rack came as part of a dessert kit and cheesecakes are part of its intended use, so I am not sure either way. |
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emazingrace |
#6 | |||
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titan, could you eliminate the K-R trivet, and use the Fagor wire rack alone? It sounds as if that would be of adequate height by itself.
Your Signature ... "The pressure's on...let's cook something!"
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titan4 |
#7 | |||
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Thanks emazingrace. I can try it with just the rack and not the trivet plate.
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Miss Vickie Pressure Cooker Recipes |
#8 | |||
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I have that dessert rack too, and it will work fine by itself. With the KR, its so well built that you can reduce the water to 1 cup (and probably even less)
and the pan won't touch the water.
It looks like you're doing everything right, and I can't see why the filling would be soupy from the start. It shouldn't be that way, so why is it doing that? Maybe not beating the eggs enough, or over beating the cheese mixture? Gracie, I know you've been making a lot of cheesecakes recently; what's the consistency of your uncooked filling? |
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emazingrace |
#9 | |||
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Vickie, The uncooked batter of the lemon cheesecake from your cookbook is very similar to a regular cake batter. For the single recipe, I follow
everything exactly, using a 7" pan, and the same timing even though my altitude is 6,300 ft. I often double the recipe and put it into a deep 8"
pan and extend the cooking time to 30 min, with excellent results. I always use the natural pressure drop, as suggested.
Titan, it really sounds as if there was not enough flour, although I can't imagine that you could accidentally omit it in 2 separate recipes? Is that at all possible? Or,
Your Signature ... "The pressure's on...let's cook something!"
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emazingrace |
#10 | |||
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Vickie, The uncooked batter of the lemon cheesecake from your cookbook is very similar to a regular cake batter. For the single recipe, I follow
everything exactly, using a 7" pan, and the same timing even though my altitude is 6,300 ft. I often double the recipe and put it into a deep 8"
pan and extend the cooking time to 30 min, with excellent results. I always use the natural pressure drop, as suggested.
Titan, it really sounds as if there was not enough flour, although I can't imagine that you could accidentally omit it in 2 separate recipes? Is that at all possible? Or,
Your Signature ... "The pressure's on...let's cook something!"
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emazingrace |
#11 | |||
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Vickie, The uncooked batter of the lemon cheesecake from your cookbook is very similar to a regular cake batter. For the single recipe, I follow
everything exactly, using a 7" pan, and the same timing even though my altitude is 6,300 ft. I often double the recipe and put it into a deep 8"
pan and extend the cooking time to 30 min, with excellent results. I always use the natural pressure drop, as suggested.
Titan, it really sounds as if there was not enough flour, although I can't imagine that you could accidentally omit it in 2 separate recipes? Is that at all possible? When I am following a recipe, I do the french rule of "everything in place". While this helps me remember to put everything into the dish, it also makes it easy for me to mistakenly add something prematurely. Did you perhaps include the sour cream, meant for the topping, into the batter?
Your Signature ... "The pressure's on...let's cook something!"
Last Edited By: emazingrace 07/07/09 08:44:49.
Edited 1 time.
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titan4 |
#12 | |||
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It is entirely possible that I overbeat the cream cheese. I am not a cook by any stretch, so I used the mixer quite thoroughly "just to make sure".
I am positive I used the right amount of flour (I even packed it to a slight degree). I check and double check each ingredient to the point of it being to a
fault (the sign of a rookie for sure). I still wonder about the Carnation Malted Milk mix. Is that different than the chocolate malt powder called out in the
book? On the ingredients I used it specifically says it contains malted milk. I looked in another store last night at some Ovaltine Chocolate malt and its
ingredients said nothing about containing malted milk. Is the "milk" word important here? Is that something I want to avoid in this recipe?
As far as the "soupy" reference I may not be using the correct word. It was not thin like soup. It did pour easily, but was still kind of thick. I did not use the sour cream in the batter. The sour cream did not even make it to the counter while the batter was being made.
Last Edited By: titan4 07/07/09 17:17:26.
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titan4 |
#13 | |||
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I am at my wit's end on this one. I tried to make this cheesecake once again - this time in my own kitchen (the previous two attempts were in the Blue
Ridge Mountains of Georgia). This time I used Ovaltine Chocolate Malt Mix. I followed the directions to the letter - triple checking along the way. I made
sure I had fresh ingredients. I sealed the foil tightly around the springform pan. I pressure cooked at 15 psi for 20 minutes (starting the timer only when
pressure was achieved). I used the natural release method without cheating. I removed the springform pan from the pressure cooker and then removed the foil.
Once again the middle was uncooked. Overall not as bad as it did on the first two attempts previously mentioned, but nonetheless not fully cooked. Thinking
that it may need time to cool and harden I let it sit for an hour and a half. The middle was still uncooked, so I foiled it up again and returned it to the PC.
Once it reached 15 psi I started the timer and cooked it at pressure for 7 minutes. After the natural release method I removed the foil and the center was
still uncooked. I let it sit for a little bit and foiled it once again. I repeated the pressure cooking again - this time for 14 minutes. After the natural
release method and removing the foil the center was still uncooked. I gave it one more college try and foiled it up yet again. This time I decided NOT to use
the Wolfgang Puck dessert insert set's rack holder. I brought the PC up to pressure and cooked it for 7 minutes at 15 psi. The natural release method was
once again used. The foil was removed and... you guessed it - the center was still uncooked. I took a couple of photos after the 4th attempt to cook this
cheesecake. One photo shows the cheesecake and my batter-dipped finger shortly after the 4th attempt (after a combined 48 minutes of cooking at pressure) as
well as the rack holder that was used in 3 of the 4 cooking attempts. You can see the photos here:
http://www.ucfpics.com/IMG_0230.JPG http://www.ucfpics.com/IMG_0231.JPG As I mentioned in another post in this thread I have had similar (but not as bad) troubles before with a Fudgy Peanut Butter Cheesecake from another cookbook. As a matter of fact the only cheesecake that has been tried and true for me is the Peach Amaretto Cheesecake whose recipe is in the Kuhn Rikon book that came with my PC. At this point I am tempted to set up my camcorder and tripod so that I can record the entire process. I can then burn it to a DVD and mail it to you to see if you can see something wrong here. I do not mean to monopolize your time though and only offer that as a possible game plan. It is hard to believe that after more than doubling the cooking time that the center would still be uncooked. I realize though that cooking it in 4 iterations with cooldowns in between could be part of the reason subsequent attempts did not work. Maybe the cooked outer diameter of the cheesecake acts as an insulator to the heat trying to get to the center.
Last Edited By: titan4 07/23/09 15:07:00.
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emazingrace |
#14 | |||
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Titan4, I responded to your PM, but I'll post here as well. I am suspecting that since you are following all the instructions to the letter, and these
are recipes that others have had success with as written, the culprit may be the pressure cooker...either the gasket or one of the pressure safties. If it
is not maintaining pressure as needed, the temp will also not be maintained consistently either. This may not be a noticeable issue with such things as
soup, broth, stew or steamed potatoes, which do not require such precise timing or temperature, but it can make a huge difference with something like
cheesecake.
A couple of years ago, I was having trouble with an Innova pressure cooker which I'd used successfully for years. Suddenly it was taking longer to come to pressure and also required more heat to keep the pressure up. As a result, some of my tried & true recipes began to scorch because of the higher heat. It turned out that the pressure regulator had developed a crack which was constantly relieving pressure, rather than helping to maintain it. Because by then Innova was no longer in business, I had to replace the entire pressure cooker. I suggest you thoroughly inspect every working part of the pressure cooker, then do a test drive, specifically timing how long it takes to come to pressure and noting the heat setting you need to maintain the pressure for an extended period [15 to 20 minutes minumum]. Inspect the gasket. If it is dry, cracked, stretched, shrunken, or does not pass the thumbnail test, it should be replaced.
Your Signature ... "The pressure's on...let's cook something!"
Last Edited By: emazingrace 07/24/09 18:23:18.
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titan4 |
#15 | |||
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Thank you emazingrace. I thought about the gasket before, but I take meticulous care of it. I wash it every time, but I am always careful not to stretch it
when washing or drying it. My pressure cooker is a Kuhn Rikon Top Model and as they say are the Rolls Royce of pressure cookers (I have read that in reviews
anyway). It is less than a year old and has probably been used less than 20 times. I watch it very closely when I use it and no steam is escaping around the
gasket. It really should not matter that much anyway even if it did leak around the gasket so long as the pressure indicator indicates correctly. When you
compare it to a jiggle top pressure cooker that is continuously letting off a fair amount of steam - much, much more than a leaking gasket would let off. I
know my gasket is sound though. The only thing I can think of is that it is possible that my pressure regulator is inaccurate - meaning that when it shows the
2 rows of red dashed lines it may be doing it at a lower pressure than what it should be doing. I bought my girlfriend the same pressure cooker and also got
the same one for her mother. I will try the lid from one of theirs and see what happens.
As far as abnormal times coming to pressure and maintaining it I would say that it is working great in that respect. I was also wondering if the recipe for this cheesecake is 100% correct. I am sure it is, but sometimes typos happen. |
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emazingrace |
#16 | |||
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Because of copywrites, I cannot ask you to post the recipe in open forum, but if you can PM to either Vickie or myself, we can take a look at the ingredient
proportions to see if that is the problem. I will admit to being stumped at this point. The pressure cooker I use most often for making cheesecakes is a
Fagor [new generation], which is similar in performance to the K-R. The only one time I had an under done cheesecake was when I had doubled the recipe and
didn't adjust the cooking time enough to allow for the additional batter. Re-pressuring did the trick for me. You may be on to something with the
possibility of the regulator being "off", although it's hard to imagie this being so with a quality appliance such as that. It is fortunate that
you have your girl friend's, and her mother's K-R to compare. I'm anxious to know what you find out. G.
Your Signature ... "The pressure's on...let's cook something!"
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titan4 |
#17 | |||
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The recipe is the Chocolate Malt Cheesecake on page 416. I am sure it is right, but wanting to eliminate all possibilities.
Last Edited By: titan4 07/27/09 12:10:34.
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titan4 |
#18 | |||
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It has been a few months, but I have a diffficult time waving the white flag sometimes and I once again got determined to not let this cheescake beat me. I
tried this recipe again and once again I got the same results. A soupy, uncooked cheese "cake". Since my glass top electric stove has since proven
not to be the ideal cook surface for my Kuhn Rikon pressure cooker I decided to use gas this time. I used a propane turkey fryer for my heat source. I babysat
it throughout the entire process making sure that I brought it up to pressure and kept it there perfectly for the prescribed 20 minute cook time. After the
natural release method was employed I took the cheesecake out, removed the foil, and observed the same soupy concoction that I have gotten now for the 4th or
5th time in a row.
At this point I would like to ask if someone else could give this recipe a try so I can narrow down what the problem is. It is on page 416. |
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emazingrace |
#19 | |||
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Hello, Titan4. I'm sorry this is such a problem for you, but I also admire your perseverance! The nearest store to me that would have the chocolate malt
powder is 60 miles. I'll be doing some shopping tomorrow, and will be sure to have all the ingredients to make the recipe as it's written. Stay tuned
for the next exciting episode!
Your Signature ... "The pressure's on...let's cook something!"
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titan4 |
#20 | |||
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Thank you emazingrace. I certainly appreciate it, but at the same time I would never want you to go out of your way (especially that far out of your way) to
do this. I have used Carnation Malted Milk Mix and Ovaltine Chocolate Malt Mix - both with the same results.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41QAZCG57KL._SL500_AA280_PIbundle-4,TopRight,0,0_AA280_SH20_.jpg http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_EYMAdo4Ms84/SdEMcniTjoI/AAAAAAAADjg/8Bc7YYS5pec/s400/Ovaltine2009ChocolateMaltMix1x.jpg |
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